Is killing wolves the only option?
It's ludicrous to me that states choose killing to solve wolf problems. Perhaps it's the easiest for them. If animals stand between them and making money, the animal is always the loser. It happens with the Yellowstone Buffalo...they are shot if they leave the boundries, Cloud's herd of wild horses was just rounded up by BLM and if they're not adopted, they're auctioned off for kill. Wolves, they just shoot and it only seems more states are joining in, thanks to that Jackass Ken Salazar. It's all driven by greed, unfortunately for the animals. :((
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by law on
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Untill "Humans" change the way they think..........it will probably never change. Our biggest "killer" is "Ignorance". The sad thing here is, humans have the power to stop ignorance, but "choose" not to.
Education, and training are the only answers I see, now and in the future. It is our responsibility to teach these ignorant fools, and that my friend, is not easy!
Grace Kono-Wells said:Hi, Andrea,
Unfortunately, you are so right. Humans are the only animal that hunts for sport, and we are the only ones who hunt with tools that nature did not give us in order to kill other animals (thus giving us an unfair advantage). Sure, stones and arrows is one thing...but a rifle? There's got to be a better way to control the unmitigated "culling" of wolves.
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Permalink Reply by Marc Cooke on
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I live in Montana and I deal with the wolf issue daily. There are not many wolf advocates in Montana. It can be dangerous for your health! However, the few that are here will agree with what I am about to write. Most people that live in Montana live here for two reasons. They were born here and have seen little of the outside world. They moved here to hunt, fish and or enjoy the great outdoors. The have little understanding of the Apex predator and its function in a healthy ecosystem. What they care about is having an easy successful hunt. They want there ungulate regardless of the circumstance. So because the leadership at Montana Fish and Wildlife and Parks (Carolyn Sime Lead wolf coordinator& Director Joe Maurier College roommate of Brian Schweitzer the Governor)dances to the tune of the Governor who is a rancher, wolves are constant Human Caused Mortality's. Killing one wolf is the proverbial two for one. They increase the numbers of deer and elk for the hunters and lessen the chance that the non proactive rancher will have a cattle loss. Please keep in mind that many of the cattle graze on Public land! Your land and my land! As for Salazar....just another rancher. That is just the tip of the iceberg!
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Permalink Reply by David cannon on
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How about those redneck inbred wolf-hating morons who are spreading propaganda that the re-introduced wolves are "Canadian" wolves which are larger and more aggressive than those which were previously in the northwestern United States. Even the ones who attempt to sound intelligent base their sub-species argument on 19th century taxonomy. It is the 21st century now! We have advanced techniques such as molecular genetics and we know better!
Current researchers note that although the gray wolf (canis lupus) was once divided into many subspecies, most scientists no longer differentiate between these subspecies. The more recent studies conclude there is very little differentiation between the many subspecies of gray wolf previously recognized. This determination is further supported by a lack of physical evidence demonstrating the presence of any wolf population, let alone a genetically distinct wolf population, in either the Yellowstone or central Idaho reintroduction areas. Modern scientific evidence states that most of the historically recognized subspecies of Canis lupus (including irremotus ) do not warrant recognition under modern taxonomic classification methods; and even if there had been a distinct subspecies found in the middle to northern United States, as wolves are known to disperse and interbreed over hundreds of miles, its range would have overlapped with a more northern subspecies in southwestern Canada and the border states.
Reference:
United States Court of Appeals, Tenth Circuit
Wyoming Farm Burearu v. Babbitt
United States
199 F.3d 1224 (10th Cir. 2000)
Marc Cooke said:I live in Montana and I deal with the wolf issue daily. There are not many wolf advocates in Montana. It can be dangerous for your health! However, the few that are here will agree with what I am about to write. Most people that live in Montana live here for two reasons. They were born here and have seen little of the outside world. They moved here to hunt, fish and or enjoy the great outdoors. The have little understanding of the Apex predator and its function in a healthy ecosystem. What they care about is having an easy successful hunt. They want there ungulate regardless of the circumstance. So because the leadership at Montana Fish and Wildlife and Parks (Carolyn Sime Lead wolf coordinator& Director Joe Maurier College roommate of Brian Schweitzer the Governor)dances to the tune of the Governor who is a rancher, wolves are constant Human Caused Mortality's. Killing one wolf is the proverbial two for one. They increase the numbers of deer and elk for the hunters and lessen the chance that the non proactive rancher will have a cattle loss. Please keep in mind that many of the cattle graze on Public land! Your land and my land! As for Salazar....just another rancher. That is just the tip of the iceberg!
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Wow! Where do I start. First, thanks for the reply. Dave, I cant get into a screaming match with many of the haters here in Montana. This only plays into their hands and weakens you along with you science based position in the eyes of the decision makers and general public. I always have to take the high road! You are doing a disservice for the wolves if you engage them. At the end of the day its about the wolves not me and my personal dislike for an ignorant individual/s. For example....I belong to a group called :Wolf Warriors" on Facebook. We were invited to a Jackson Browne concert in Bozeman by the Buffalo Field Campaign. We had a table by the main entrance and when people arrived they could check out our information table. We pride our self on providing accurate information. Several ranchers stopped by that were upset and wanted to engage in a screaming match. I calmly listen to their position and slowly defused and deescalate their anger and hostility. By the time we had finished our conversation they had told me that they don't hate the wolves. They just did not care for wolves killing cattle. It cost them money.
Your augment about genetic is right on the money. However, there is a constant attack on the perpetuation of misinformation. I am constantly providing accurate...science based information. You have to appeal to their logic! Not an easy task I might add. You are correct when you say it the 21st century... But that's where you live, not in Montana. That is no exaggeration! I would be only to happy to provide you with wolf information concerning Montana, Idaho and Wyoming. I look for to your reply. Sincerely, Marc
David cannon said:How about those redneck inbred wolf-hating morons who are spreading propaganda that the re-introduced wolves are "Canadian" wolves which are larger and more aggressive than those which were previously in the northwestern United States. Even the ones who attempt to sound intelligent base their sub-species argument on 19th century taxonomy. It is the 21st century now! We have advanced techniques such as molecular genetics and we know better!
Current researchers note that although the gray wolf (canis lupus) was once divided into many subspecies, most scientists no longer differentiate between these subspecies. The more recent studies conclude there is very little differentiation between the many subspecies of gray wolf previously recognized. This determination is further supported by a lack of physical evidence demonstrating the presence of any wolf population, let alone a genetically distinct wolf population, in either the Yellowstone or central Idaho reintroduction areas. Modern scientific evidence states that most of the historically recognized subspecies of Canis lupus (including irremotus ) do not warrant recognition under modern taxonomic classification methods; and even if there had been a distinct subspecies found in the middle to northern United States, as wolves are known to disperse and interbreed over hundreds of miles, its range would have overlapped with a more northern subspecies in southwestern Canada and the border states.
Reference:
United States Court of Appeals, Tenth Circuit
Wyoming Farm Burearu v. Babbitt
United States
199 F.3d 1224 (10th Cir. 2000)
Marc Cooke said:I live in Montana and I deal with the wolf issue daily. There are not many wolf advocates in Montana. It can be dangerous for your health! However, the few that are here will agree with what I am about to write. Most people that live in Montana live here for two reasons. They were born here and have seen little of the outside world. They moved here to hunt, fish and or enjoy the great outdoors. The have little understanding of the Apex predator and its function in a healthy ecosystem. What they care about is having an easy successful hunt. They want there ungulate regardless of the circumstance. So because the leadership at Montana Fish and Wildlife and Parks (Carolyn Sime Lead wolf coordinator& Director Joe Maurier College roommate of Brian Schweitzer the Governor)dances to the tune of the Governor who is a rancher, wolves are constant Human Caused Mortality's. Killing one wolf is the proverbial two for one. They increase the numbers of deer and elk for the hunters and lessen the chance that the non proactive rancher will have a cattle loss. Please keep in mind that many of the cattle graze on Public land! Your land and my land! As for Salazar....just another rancher. That is just the tip of the iceberg!
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I agree with everything you say. Educating people is probably the best thing anyone can do to promote wolf conservation. I know it's not good to get into a screaming match with people. Sometimes I just get fed up when people are unwilling to listen to science if it does not agree with their agenda.
Marc Cooke said:Wow! Where do I start. First, thanks for the reply. Dave, I cant get into a screaming match with many of the haters here in Montana. This only plays into their hands and weakens you along with you science based position in the eyes of the decision makers and general public. I always have to take the high road! You are doing a disservice for the wolves if you engage them. At the end of the day its about the wolves not me and my personal dislike for an ignorant individual/s. For example....I belong to a group called :Wolf Warriors" on Facebook. We were invited to a Jackson Browne concert in Bozeman by the Buffalo Field Campaign. We had a table by the main entrance and when people arrived they could check out our information table. We pride our self on providing accurate information. Several ranchers stopped by that were upset and wanted to engage in a screaming match. I calmly listen to their position and slowly defused and deescalate their anger and hostility. By the time we had finished our conversation they had told me that they don't hate the wolves. They just did not care for wolves killing cattle. It cost them money.
Your augment about genetic is right on the money. However, there is a constant attack on the perpetuation of misinformation. I am constantly providing accurate...science based information. You have to appeal to their logic! Not an easy task I might add. You are correct when you say it the 21st century... But that's where you live, not in Montana. That is no exaggeration! I would be only to happy to provide you with wolf information concerning Montana, Idaho and Wyoming. I look for to your reply. Sincerely, Marc
David cannon said:How about those redneck inbred wolf-hating morons who are spreading propaganda that the re-introduced wolves are "Canadian" wolves which are larger and more aggressive than those which were previously in the northwestern United States. Even the ones who attempt to sound intelligent base their sub-species argument on 19th century taxonomy. It is the 21st century now! We have advanced techniques such as molecular genetics and we know better!
Current researchers note that although the gray wolf (canis lupus) was once divided into many subspecies, most scientists no longer differentiate between these subspecies. The more recent studies conclude there is very little differentiation between the many subspecies of gray wolf previously recognized. This determination is further supported by a lack of physical evidence demonstrating the presence of any wolf population, let alone a genetically distinct wolf population, in either the Yellowstone or central Idaho reintroduction areas. Modern scientific evidence states that most of the historically recognized subspecies of Canis lupus (including irremotus ) do not warrant recognition under modern taxonomic classification methods; and even if there had been a distinct subspecies found in the middle to northern United States, as wolves are known to disperse and interbreed over hundreds of miles, its range would have overlapped with a more northern subspecies in southwestern Canada and the border states.
Reference:
United States Court of Appeals, Tenth Circuit
Wyoming Farm Burearu v. Babbitt
United States
199 F.3d 1224 (10th Cir. 2000)
Marc Cooke said:I live in Montana and I deal with the wolf issue daily. There are not many wolf advocates in Montana. It can be dangerous for your health! However, the few that are here will agree with what I am about to write. Most people that live in Montana live here for two reasons. They were born here and have seen little of the outside world. They moved here to hunt, fish and or enjoy the great outdoors. The have little understanding of the Apex predator and its function in a healthy ecosystem. What they care about is having an easy successful hunt. They want there ungulate regardless of the circumstance. So because the leadership at Montana Fish and Wildlife and Parks (Carolyn Sime Lead wolf coordinator& Director Joe Maurier College roommate of Brian Schweitzer the Governor)dances to the tune of the Governor who is a rancher, wolves are constant Human Caused Mortality's. Killing one wolf is the proverbial two for one. They increase the numbers of deer and elk for the hunters and lessen the chance that the non proactive rancher will have a cattle loss. Please keep in mind that many of the cattle graze on Public land! Your land and my land! As for Salazar....just another rancher. That is just the tip of the iceberg!
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